How's The Game

[wearethecrystalmods]

HOW'S THE GAME?

Welcome to Cosmographia's first "How's the Game"! This is essentially an open forum for discussion about where to take the game from here and anything that might need changing. A lot has happened in the past week and going forward we feel it's more important than ever to have a discussion like this.

This is not a place for criticism of specific players or characters. This is purely about the game itself. Please save player specific criticisms for the upcoming How's My Driving. Any disregard for this or out of hand conduct will be frozen or deleted.

We are inviting not just all current players (old and new) to participate in this discussion but also past players that have left and new potential players considering the game; we encourage everyone to pitch in their two cents. That being said, since this is the game's first HTG we are currently going to do it without anon or sock journals (for future HTG this may change).

Like said this is a completely open forum. We have a list of topics we want to discuss (listed below), but after all those have gone up players are completely free to start their own threads with anything not covered by the other sections.

Current sections (please wait until all these are up and linked to post your own they're all up now!):

The Staff
Applications
Setting Suggestions
The World Outside Waverly Bay/Potential World Plot
Event Schedule/Power Distribution
Player Plot Approval
Power Limitations/Guidelines
Fate of Cosmonet
Network Comm?
Day Cycle Comments
The Temp. Drop System
Future Event/Plot Suggestions

Comments

Proposal: Power Approval System

[foolreversed]

So here's the proposal I've come up with right now after taking into account all this feedback and suggestions:

Powers will need to be approved by mods. A new page will be set up for power submissions/requests, and in the case powers are too powerful and need to be nerfed mods will work with players.

The request process will work like this:

-Players comment using a form (that we will be drafting up) linking a piece of their event activity and detailing the exact power they want.
-Participation in one event will count as one "token". Players are free to save up their "tokens".
-A basic power (passive, offensive, or otherwise) will cost one "token".
-However if a player would like to upgrade one of their current powers that will cost at least two tokens. For example, let's use the Final Fantasy spell "Fire". With two tokens you could upgrade "Fire" to "Fira" and with two more it would become "Firaga". Basically it's a way to make your more base powers more powerful over time, or grant additional levels to your power (Maybe a healer's powers will have more reach? Or a weapon can become larger)
-Alternatively, one token can also be used to reclaim a small item from home (bigger items will probably be case by case), as a reward from the Heart for your character's service

In addition to this basic gem powers will be granted to everyone. Basically anything all gems are shown having in the show: bubbling, shapeshifting, fusion and one basic weapon. These are for characters to learn in their own spare time, but the one stipulation is that at least a week must pass before you learn the next power (we are also debating two weeks). Basically all of these basic gem powers will be spaced apart (but unique powers gained from events can be discovered whenever). This gives new characters known powers for them to start trying to learn on their own, much like Steven himself tries to do in the show. It also gives newbies powers to play with so they're not stuck waiting for the first event to get a new one, since the new event schedule could leave them waiting two months for a new power otherwise.

(And for clarification, new characters will still get one unique power listed on their app along with these freebies.)


How does this sound to everyone?

HI THIS IS INK ON A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT

[69problems]

Sounds good to me! Having power upgrades cost two tokens does make me worry that people will rather use the one token to just get a new power instead of having to potentially wait four months for just a small upgrade to what they already have, but I assume the intent is to discourage people from becoming too overpowered too quickly.

I know I personally would rather have a small pool of powers that I keep upgrading instead of a wide range of ones that don't do much, so I'm a little biased in that I'd want to be able to actually do that in a timely manner. Having people have to choose between a new power or an upgrade to an existing one still cuts down on people becoming too op too quickly without them costing differently imho.

...that's a really good username omg

[foolreversed]

Mmm, yeah that's a good point. Am definitely going to have to think it over more with that in mind then (because I am also at a point where I would rather upgrade my small pool of powers over time then pick up new ones)

THANKS i'm very fond of it

[69problems]

ANOTHER CONSIDERATION: an upgrade costing the same would make sense considering character are actively trying to learn to control their powers, presumably. It taking them four whole months to get just a little better at something seems kind of strange unless they are REALLY not trying. If anything, unlocking new powers ought to cost more if something needs to have a greater cost.

[foolreversed]

Yeah actually since you've put it that way I think we'll nix the "two tokens" thing and just leave it as like. A choice.

Let the saving up maybe be only for really big items from home which would be a bit much otherwise. (And by big here I am imagining like. Greg's van LMAO)

[69problems]

I'm gonna save up 100 tokens and buy the actual Dark Tower and adjoining endless field of roses, you just fuckin' wait.

[perfectlynormalcthulhu]

I like this. It's easy to grasp, thematic, and gives everyone options no matter when they show up.

EDIT: And of course right after posting I think of something else I wanted to ask. Under this system, would it be possible to use your tokens to change a power into something different? Like, I'm not particularly invested in Amelie's Diamond Storm, and her Zygarde Forme ability is basically invalidated by shapeshifting being a freebie, so would I be able to save up four tokens to change them into something more appropriate to her character?

[foolreversed]

I don't see how that would be a problem! A retcon/change will probably stay at two tokens because going forward that also encourages people to think it through what powers they want (but doesn't leave them stuck with ones they don't want indefinitely).

edit: older players in your case I think might get a retcon for free now that I'm thinking about it, since as you said, shapeshifting becoming a freebie invalidates one of those powers (unless you wanna do something different with the forme ability, since shapeshifting doesn't grant special abilities that may be associated with a specific form otherwise)

[lifeisfun]

Frankly the Zygarde Forme was based on incomplete information, especially since it turns out that Zygarde is some kind of swarm of living Legos that can form up into a dog, dragon, or giant robot.

An actual Zygarde-themed power would be something like turning into multiple tiny versions of yourself.

[foolreversed]

................man pokemon is weird

[coneyislandcrazy]

Question: since some gems used their previous power gains to get what would now be considered freebies would we give them new powers?

For example, all three of Harley's powers are basic gem skills from the show. Weapon summoning, shapeshifting and Hammerspace.

[chatwithdeath]

Yeah, that's what I was wondering about actually... even though I'm not an old player, it wouldn't be fair to people who already gained them through the events before.

[foolreversed]

Mmm, we can probably work out something for those players. Maybe allow one free unique power. We'll have to talk it over but I admit it would feel a little unfair not doing something for the older players who gained most of those powers through events.

(...also I forgot hammerspace was shown in the show. Oops. Might not include that one as a freebie though.)

[coneyislandcrazy]

Makes sense, or like maybe a free upgrade to those basics?

Like the weapon summoned can now get bigger, or you can summon duplicates?

Also should we nerf the shapeshifting? In the show the gems change shape but not color. Could make color changing an upgrade.

[69problems]

NGL I've just been assuming we can't change color, I had no idea it was allowed.

[foolreversed]

Ohhh, yes I like this idea, I'll have to run it by the others.

As for nerfing shapeshifting... ehhh, I think the ship has sort of set sail on that one. It's become such a big thing for so many characters already (and used in different ways too; some characters use it to change clothes, others specifically have it not do that) that it might not be fair to nerf it at this stage. Maybe just nerf the size and stuff.

[tokyokingmade]

I like everything except that I would flip the cost of new powers and power upgrades around. Imo the system should encourage developing a few related powers over gathering multiple basic powers - it fits the themes and mechanics of SU better, and it rewards creative handling of powers by making it more resource-effective to come up with a new use of an existing power than to just slap on a new stock ability.

If there's a concern that making "upgrades" cheaper might lead to overpower, I think the solution lies in being stricter with the upgrades themselves rather than putting a higher cost on them.

I had a longer, more coherent suggestion here but I heard some music and it dropped out of my head, hang on.

[foolreversed]

Yeah since it's been brought up that way it's clear that that was an oversight on my part, as I hadn't even considered it that way before.

Will definitely fix that part!

[tokyokingmade]

Okay let me try getting it back together.

I think my objection to the idea of upgrades being more expensive comes from defining "upgrades" as not only "number increases" (Fira -> Firaga) but also as "increased control" (Fira -> heating up your food a little instead of setting it on fire) and "modifications" (teleporting yourself -> teleporting other things). There's a lot of room to explore one or two basic power types as a gem, and I think that putting a higher cost on that exploration could work against that opportunity.



Meanwhile, I'm also thinking about how a power approval system could leave room for player-directed power improvement. Gem powers rely on some extent to emotions, so it would be good to leave room for people to develop their characters' powers outside of event rewards.

[tokyokingmade]

God damn that music is distracting.

Thinking more on "giving players room":

The approval of powers doesn't necessarily mean "this is what characters can do right at this moment", it's an upper limit. Players who want to play out characters having trouble with their powers for whatever reason are totally free to do that, and have whatever powers are approved in reserve.

There ought to be the potential for people to play characters who have trouble controlling overactive or dangerous powers, too, since that's just such a genre staple and it's fun and often appropriate. Maybe have this as a "come talk to the mods if you want to do this" possibility?

[coneyislandcrazy]

I had another thought/question

So, let's say not-so hypothetically I want to play a character from Avatar: the last airbender.

Obviously just saying "fire manipulation/bending" is a broad term for a power, and any elemental power can grow to amazing levels.

So what would be some examples of basic earth/fire/wind/waterheart! powers and how they might be upgraded?

[foolreversed]

Ah yes! I was thinking about having to come up with examples of those for the new page.

The thing is we don't want to put too much in place because we really love how much freedom players have here and what they come up with (hence this will likely be a case by case basis) but I can think of a few examples!

Let's take Adachi here for instance. Adachi already has an electricity power. When unchecked it can manifest as a great deal of static shock. If he wanted to, he could concentrate it and shock someone by touching them. In a moment of anger he was also able to summon a lightning bolt (from the sky) to electrocute someone. (If I were to do this with this system in place I would have made the lightning bolt an upgrade maybe)

If he were to upgrade this it would eventually become more controllable and look like his electricity attack in the fighting game. Another possible upgrade may be multiple lightning bolts (from the sky) at once. If I wanted to get creative, in between these upgrades I could come up with something like an electric force field as a shield.

Now using wind as an example, to start the character could manipulate wind enough to force someone back with a quick shot of air. Further upgrades could give them mini tornadoes or the ability to manipulate wind to make their sword invisible allow themselves to pseudo "fly".

As for a non elemental example, Adachi's weather powers could be upgraded in this order: fog -> rain -> snow.

Once again though, we don't want to limit player creativity. There's a lot of cool things people can do with these powers! So it'll likely end up being case by case and if something is too much we'll tell the player as such.

[coneyislandcrazy]

Good good! Excellent thank you.

It's also great you guys are keeping in mind the creative freedom that made this game so enticing. Between that and the laid back attitude it keeps the spirit of the show

Re: Proposal: Power Approval System

[determinedpacifist]

What about characters that really would not want weapons (can't think of anyone like that in this comm, nosiree)? I assume this is optional, but would something replace that?

[foolreversed]

No, nothing would replace it, same with any of the other freebies. It'd be your choice whether you'd want to use them or not.

That being said, remember that in SU weapon does not necessarily mean a thing to attack with. Steven's weapon is his mother's shield, which he uses to protect people. While he could use to attack as well, he (and Rose herself, who took up a physical sword along with her gem created shield) uses it primarily to deflect.

Basically what I'm saying here is it'd be a "loose" definition of weapon - whatever would suit the character best basically. Maybe a character is like Steven and just wants to protect others. Maybe another doesn't want to hurt the monsters but does want to stop them from hurting others so their weapon is a net. There's a lot of possibilities, even for pacifist characters who don't want to hurt anyone.